What Was WIRES Hiding?

rwsqIt has been 11 months since the WIRES 2011 AGM. In all this time WIRES has not released to its members the 2010-2011 Annual Report. The WIRES Board has been asked repeatedly to do so but they have not been forthcoming. So, rw.com will oblige.

We cannot access the Annual Report but we have obtained something possibly better: The official financial returns submitted to the NSW Department of Fair Trading for that year, and 2009-2010 and 2007-2008. WIRES did not submit a return to Fair Trading in 2008-2009.

The Fair Trading returns do not give a detailed breakdown of spending and income. The categories are very broad and it is difficult to determine exactly what items make up the amounts for expenses and revenue. Never fear, rw.com has obtained another document which tops even the Fair Trading returns: a copy of the WIRES Administration Office’s internal profit & loss statement for 2010-2011. This statement was presented to the WIRES State Council (WSC) in July 2011. This statement has a detailed break down of the income and expenditure of the Administration Office.

These reports are available for download from rw.com. Included with these is the 2009-2010 WIRES Annual Report just to show you what one looks like when WIRES makes one available.

WIRES Administration Office Profit & Loss Statement - 2010-2011

WIRES Annual Return - Fair Trading - 2010-2011

WIRES Annual Return - Fair Trading - 2009-2010

WIRES Annual Return - Fair Trading - 2007-2008

WIRES Annual Report - 2009-2010

 

Not as Big as They Claim

ret-members

Go to topGo straight to commentsAdd a commentThe first thing to note in the Fair Trading return is on the cover page: The number of members WIRES really has. WIRES often claims it has over 3,000 members, or over 2,000 members, etc. At different times of the year this may be true due to the influx of members gained through WIRES very lucrative training sessions. WIRES raised $160,784 through training in 2010-2011 alone. However, the real test is how many members renew at the end of the year.

In 2010-2011 WIRES lost 504 members or 23% of its volunteers, dropping from 2193 in 2009-2010 to a shameful 1689.

At the end of the 2010-2011 reporting period the number of WIRES members remaining was pitiful at less than 1700. In 2010-2011 WIRES lost 504 members or 23% of its volunteers, dropping from 2193 in 2009-2010 to a shameful 1689. This is a shocking result considering the amount of new members WIRES ropes in each year.

That number, 504, is the net loss; WIRES lost all the gains it made in membership that year too. If WIRES ran 20 intake courses (RICCs) in 2010-11 with 25 new members from each course (and from the advice we have this is a reasonable assumption), that would add an aditional 500 members to the total membership at renewal time or 2693 members. This would bring the decimation closer to 1004 members lost or 37%. There are no figures for years prior to 2009-2010. WIRES likes to tout itself as a monolith in wildlife rehabilitation with a membership in size that dwarfs all the other groups combined. This is obviously a myth as their declared numbers prove.

Another point to note is on page 1. In previous years’ returns WIRES listed the whole WSC as members of the committee running WIRES. In the 2010-2011 return, only the Board members are listed. This speaks to the Board’s contempt for the WSC and democracy.

 

Only Stopped When They Were Noticed

Since our article “Donors’ Money - Who Gets It?” was published by rw.com in December 2011, WIRES has made some changes to the way it raises funds. WIRES’ website is a significant source of donations and WIRES Administration Office guards it jealously. No WIRES branch is allowed to have an online donations facility.

This situation has troubled many WIRES branches for many years. The WIRES Board made an attempt to put these concerns to rest in a letter sent to the treasurers of local branches. This letter was from Margaret Clinton, the WIRES Treasurer. In typical WIRES fashion the letter is undated but rw.com believes it was distributed around February 2009.

Letter from WIRES Treasurer - February 2009

In this letter from the Board it explains, although not very clearly, how donated money is distributed. It states: “At the end of each month the Trustees [of the WIRES Public Gift Fund (WPGF)] disburse the donations to the Branches.”

This implies online donations are distributed equally to the local branches and this is how some have viewed the situation. However, “the donations” disbursed to the branches are only those made directly to the branches - money the branch collected itself - money collected online makes up no part of these disbursments. Donations the branches collect themselves - through donation-tins and the like - are placed into the WPGF to attract a tax deduction and then given back to the individual branch. These disbursments are not online donations being equally distributed to branches. WIRES Administration Office collects all online donations.

The letter goes on to say: “There is no demand placed on the Branch as to how these donations are to be spent (as long as it is within the aims and policies of WIRES) and the donor did not specify how it was to be used.”

It is true that donations made directly to a branch can be spent by that branch in whatever way the branch determines. After all, the donation was given directly to a branch and it is therefore assumed it was made for the use of that branch. It is equally true that the Administration Office can spend any donations it collects in any way it likes. It is the last part of this sentence that is important: “and the donor did not specify how it was to be used.” Once the donor indicates how the money is to be spent there is nothing anyone can do to alter this decision. This is at the heart of the Board's tactics as pointed out by the rw.com article in December 2011.

WIRES website was very cleverly crafted to force all donations into administration and away from front-line services. They did this by splitting donations up into two types: appeals and ordinary donations.

by forcing the donor to use the "appeals" button the Board locks this money for the exclusive use by adminsitration only

Appeals are for specific causes and being a specific cause any money raised this way must by law be used for that cause. What was not disclosed by WIRES to the donor is any donation made to an “appeal” divertes that money to administration. They discouraged donors from using the ordinary donations form by firstly not explaining there were alternatives and by not displaying links to the general donations form with any prominence. Not that this really matters as in practice ALL online donations are diverted to administration. But, by forcing the donor to use the "appeals" button the Board locks this money for the exclusive use by adminsitration only - no branch can access these donations, even if the trustees of the WPGF are requested to release the money to a branch.

orangebutton

The second device used to direct donors to the appeals form was by prominently displaying in great number the orange donate buttons. An example of which appears above. These buttons led to the appeals page and away from the ordinary donations page. At the same time links to the ordinary donations page were obscured, being usually a small text-link at the bottom of a page. These orange buttons have reduced in number since the rw.com article about them appeared.

The other way WIRES gave prominence to the appeals was by linking the appeals form to the display banners. Almost every WIRES webpage has a banner across the top of it which changes every few seconds to show a new image of a cute animal. These banners begged for donations and directed the donor to the appeals page. Donors were not made aware that by clicking these banner images they were directing their donation to administration. These banners have also been toned down recently with the begging text removed from most.

The most noticeable and radical change to the WIRES website is the complete removal of any trace of the once perennial appeals page. Every season a new one used to bloom into life – winter, spring, summer, or fall. But not since we pointed out for what they were being used. If you look at the WIRES website now you will see no evidence of them. Once we revealed why WIRES was using them they quickly stopped using them. In case you have forgotten what they looked like we present a collage of them for your perusal.

appealing

It is difficult to know how much money this arrangement forced into direct support of administration at the cost of native animals in need. The evidence suggests WIRES makes no, or very little, distribution payments to the branches. From this one must assume their scheme worked well. Neither the profit & loss statements nor the official returns submitted to Fair Trading separate appeals from ordinary donations. They are merged together into one WIRES Public Gift Fund (WFGF) distribution. The two amounts are however very different things as WIRES own accounts demonstrate.

ret-appeals

On page 20 of the 2010-2011 Fair Trading return under note 19 a), WIRES lists the “types of fundraising revenues” it received. The top listed is “Appeals”, with “Donations” second. Donations and appeals are very different things and distributed in very different ways. For a long time the WIRES Board made this categorisation work to the advantage of the Administration Office and to the disadvantage of branches, volunteers, and ultimately the disadvantage of sick and injured native animals. But one big question remains: Who decides how the money is spent?

The letter of February 2009 states: “At regular meetings with the Trustees WIRES Inc presents a request for disbursement of funds...” Who are these trustees of the WPGF and what decisions are they making?

To simplify the matter and recap:

Ordinary donations - donations pooled together into the WPGF - can be released by the trustee for any purpose within the aims of WIRES.

Appeals - donations that are made for a specified use, in this case administration - the trustees can only release these funds to administration.

There is still no way on the WIRES website for a donor to specify for what purpose they make an online-donation or to which branch they would like for the money to go. They are still not given the option of directing their donation to a specific cause of their choice, or of placing any caveat on the donation, like “Only to be spent on the direct care of animals” or “Not to be spent on administration”. The donor cannot give the money to a local branch where most of the actual care of animals occurs. Once they have made the donation they have no way of directing how it is spent.

 

Take What You Want – OEH Won’t Stop You.

ret-mudgee

On page 25 of the 2010-2011 Fair Trading return there appears a profit & loss summary for WIRES Mudgee Branch. Strange thing, as there is no WIRES Mudgee Branch. That is obvious from the return itself which shows the “Mudgee Branch” had absolutely no income whatsoever. From this account “WIRES Mudgee” has no members and no funds. Mudgee WIRES was closed many years ago when the entire membership walked out in dispute with the Board and then established their own group.

mapmudgeeThe NSW Office of Environment and Heritage has a map available online showing the boundaries of all wildlife rehabilitation groups in NSW. The image (left) was taken from this map.

The entire coloured area (green and gold) is the territory of the Wildlife Carers Mudgee Region (WCMR). It is a large area stretching from near Coonabarabran in the north, south past Dunedoo to Bathurst, across to Lithgow in the east and back north through the Upper Hunter.

The area coloured green is that allocated to Cudgegong Wildlife Carers, the group that abandoned WIRES in Mudgee. This area overlaps the middle area of that held by the WCMR.

The black line shows the boundary of the non-existent “Mudgee WIRES” branch. This is an area of around 17,000 square kilometres.

The NPWS is still recognising “WIRES Mudgee” as a group even though they have no income, no members, no meetings, no local management and no local presence. WIRES is still declaring to government as if the branch exists even though their own returns shows it clearly does not.

OEH Wildlife Rehabilitation Map

An online search for “WIRES Mudgee” returned a Yellow Pages listing. When the telephone number given in this reference is dialled, the call is diverted to the WIRES Central West branch. The address listed in the Yellow Pages is the address of a local vet in Mudgee. We contacted that vet clinic and were told that WIRES Mudgee had closed down in around 2007. WIRES Central West now takes all enquiries for WIRES in the Mudgee area. The reason the vet’s address was listed is because WIRES Mudgee used to house their answering machine at the clinic. The vet clinic did offer to put the caller in contact with the two established groups active in the area: Wildlife Carers Mudgee and Cudgegong Carers.

branchlistWIRES own website acknowledges Mudgee branch no longer exists. It lists the Mudgee area as being covered by Central West branch.

rw.com would like to know exactly when WIRES was given permission to annex the Mudgee region into the territory of the Central West Branch: a region it had failed in the past to directly service and a region already serviced by two well supported groups.

The NSW Rehabilitation of Protected Fauna Policy states in clauses 42 - 44 that a group failing to maintain a viable presence in an area will undergo a process of deregulation, with the whole process taking no more than 6 months. Circumstances that would trigger this deregulation include: “the effectiveness of local fauna rehabilitators at responding to fauna incidents... emerging gaps in service provision with respect to particular groups of species... the ability of groups to train, monitor and co-ordinate their members”.

Since “WIRES Mudgee” has no members, no governance, no money and has been non-existent for over 5 years, it is plain that the NPWS should: “consider removing the area from the local group’s licence” as provisioned in clause 44 of the policy.

WIRES was allowed to simply annex the 17,000 square kilometre Mudgee area

At a time when other groups are being inspected for their compliance, and duplication of service is being prevented by the new policy (see clause 8), it has to be wondered as to why WIRES was allowed to simply annex the 17,000 square kilometre Mudgee area, especially when WIRES has proved to be locally unpopular in the past. Is this more favouritism of WIRES from the bureaucrats at EOH and NPWS? Is there a bigger agenda yet to manifest itself?

NSW Rehabilitation of Protected Fauna Policy

 

The Money

As pointed out earlier, it is difficult to draw conclusions from the reports given to Fair Trading as they declare the revenue and expenditure in broad categories. However, by comparing and incorporating the Administration Office internal profit & loss statement, things become clearer. The Administration Office profit & loss statement was issued in July 2011 to the WSC and is the last time the membership was supplied with a statement of WIRES financial position.

propspendallpieNote the pie-chart left: This represents all revenue for the entirety of WIRES in 2010-2011, including all the branches and sub-committees. The total revenue was $2,591,821.

The grey slice is the amount left unspent at the end of year.

The green slice is all money spent by branches. Included here is the money Administration Office spends on direct assistance to members.

The orange slice is the amount spent by Administration Office alone. WIRES Administration spends a whopping 70% of all the money coming into WIRES from all sources.

The total revenue of WIRES Administration Office, as last reported to the WSC, is on page 1 of the profit & loss statement. That amount is $1,831,468.

WIRES Administration Office total revenue as declared to government can be found on page 21 of the Fair Trading return. That amount is $1,878,038.

This means WIRES declared $46,570 more income to Fair Trading than was declared to the WSC. The profit & loss statement was issued to the WSC six weeks after the close of the 2010-2011 financial year and 8 weeks before the Fair Trading return was submitted. It took over six weeks for WIRES to incorporate this $46,000 into its accounts. Between the July WSC Meeting and September when the official return was made they found this extra $46,570. There are often adjustments during auditing and the profit & loss statement carries a disclaimer to this effect. However, adjustments during auditing usually move money from one category to another without altering the overall totals. If there are any changes in the total revenues or expenses these are usually minimal. An amount close to $50,000 is a large adjustment and not one of which the WSC was ever made aware.

 

$306,000.00?

More alarmingly, in the same 8 week period between the profit & loss statement in July 2011 and Fair Trading return in September, WIRES Administration Office declared an extra $306,748 in expenses. The total expenses on page 2 of the profit & loss statement show Administration Office expenditure as $1,492,529; but only 8 weeks later that amount has blown out to $1,799,277 at page 21 of the official return. This is a massive discrepancy never made known to the WSC and therefore never made known to the membership. On what did Administration Office and the Board spend this money? Why wasn't it in the profit & loss statement? And why were the WSC not updated about this extra spending? Is anyone on the Board paying attention to these massive discrepancies?

 

The Things That Money CAN Buy

totincallbarWIRES’ spending priorities become clear when the profit & loss statement is combined with the Fair Trading return, incorporating the unaccounted $306,000 and the unspent amount. The graph (left) gives a breakdown of the spending across all of WIRES. The total income is represented by the orange column on the far left. Following that are the spending categories in descending order of proportion.

Across all of WIRES as a whole, the biggest item of expenditure is employed staff and contractors, representing nearly double that spent by all the branches combined. Since branches do all the direct animal care it is clear from WIRES own figures that it prioritises employing administration staff, some of whom are Board members, over spending money on assisting sick and injured wildlife. WIRES Administration spending on support to animals and volunteers is the smallest category on the far right.

(See this graph with the branches itemised at the end of this article.)

On page 2 of the profit & loss statement the amount of $55,875 is described as “consultancy fees”. The WIRES Board keeps secret the details of these “consultants”. We know a proportion of this amount was for the private investigator hired to drive out Mr Chris Lloyd. The amount handed over to the PI has been reported as $20,000 plus; but just how much "plus" was there?


Taking the total income for WIRES Administration Office, $1,878,038 as declared on page 21 of the Fair Trading return, and then adding in the breakdown from the profit & loss statement, it is obvious what are the spending priorities of WIRES Administration Office. The pie-chart below represents this situation with the total Administration Office revenue broken into proportions of spending.

propspendhopie

Administration Office is the only employer of staff and consultants in WIRES. Staff and consultants make up the largest slice of the pie representing 58% of Administration Office spending. As previously shown, this amount is so large it dwarfs all other spending, even for the accounts across WIRES as a whole. The black slice is the unaccounted expenditure of $306,748 as pointed out above: This means a massive 16% of all WIRES Administration Office spending was not declared to the WIRES State Council and therefore not made known to the membership. Note the yellow slice: WIRES Administration Office spent nearly double on the Board and Committees (entertainment & travel, etc.) than it did on direct assistance to animals and the carers who look after them (dark-green slice). The amount spent by Administration Office on direct assistance is only a miniscule 2%.

All the figures above come from WIRES’ own documents and official returns. WIRES spending priorities are very clear from their own declarations. Usually no one pays much attention but lately members have been taking an interest in these things and we think this is why WIRES, true to form, has been suppressing the information. Read these reports and think for yourself – you have a right to see them and a right to question them too.

expbybranch

Comments  

 
PORCHE
# TIME FOR THE POUND OF FLESH.PORCHE 2013-03-14 17:05
So! $360.000.00 DOLLARS JUST DISAPPEARED.
LAST YEAR.

HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.
NO NEED TO WORRY IT WAS PROBABLY ONLY SOME BODY'S GRANDMAS LIFE SAVINGS. MORE FOOL HER.

THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS BREECH OF TRUST. TIME TO CALL IN THE POLICE.

TIME FOR WIRES TO GET A PRIVATE DETECTIVE TO TRACK IT DOWN. $360.000.00 IS AS MUCH A CRIME AS A SPOT OF BLOOD.

SOUNDS LIKE A SCENE FROM THE MERCHANT OF VENICE.
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Monkey
# Inner_W-LeaksMonkey 2013-02-11 22:18
The PI was paid for by Inner west, How many branches receive personal donation's from Stan Wood.
The fact is Inner West paid $20K for the PI without the branch member's even noticing.!
Members should ask who paid for the PI, after all it was their hard earned funds that paid for it.
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tell us more
# RE: Inner_W-Leakstell us more 2013-02-13 09:34
Gosh Monkey,
Those inner west members must be a dozy lot to have $ 20,000 snatched from under their noses! Would you like to enlighten us with your evidence for this expenditure by IW branch? otherwise its just obfuscation
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PI
# RE: Inner_W-LeaksPI 2013-02-13 16:50
OMG Monkey, what reason would the Inner west have to pay for the PI? Mighty generous of Stan Wood to pay $500 out of $20,000 to help, if thats what your insinuating. And how did you come to this conclusion? You seem to know what went on how about letting us all know.
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Guest
# Missing reportGuest 2013-02-01 08:44
Where is the report from 2008-2009? Are we able to get the report from 2011-2012?
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Spartacus
# RE: Missing reportSpartacus 2013-02-01 11:29
In the 2009-10 report, as in each year's report, there are two columns of figures: current year and previous year. The latter is used for comparison usually. In 2009-10 they used this column in lieu of submitting a full report for 2008-09. Not regular but they got away with it.

I have a feeling that because WIRES knows rw will gain access to it, they won't be submitting a 2011-12 report to Fair Trading this year. That's fine - they'll have to eventually even if it takes until 2013-14, and we will still be here waiting.
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TUBICRQ 2
# The Ujack System Or Nothing up my sleeve or look at me look at meTUBICRQ 2 2012-09-23 17:55
LET THEM EAT CAKE.

Quote:
quote]$306.748.00 unaccounted for
Equals 2715 days of food funding missing or Quote:
7.65 years of starvation ahead
The good news is the computor says YES. The staff and BMC can afford their Xmas party Sorry no animals allowed!
Oh! yes. No volunteers are invited.

IF I FOUND THAT I WAS MISSING $306.000.00 I WOULD BE CALLING IN THE POLICE.
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magpie
# Members in the darkmagpie 2012-09-24 18:40
The WSC are not allowed to let members see the accounts,these are confidential documents so even if the $306,748.00 was made known to the WSC thats as far as it goes.
Unless the fancy donors annual report is done members know nothing of the accounts of the organisation.
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Spartacus
# Another take on on the takeSpartacus 2012-09-20 18:02
rw.com has been contacted by an individual who claims that the real reason for WIRES hiring a PI was not to get Mr Lloyd but to investigate "fraud" in the Inner West Branch.

They showed me an email confirming that a deposit was paid for a hall on 3 occasions in 2009, each amounting to $500. (Mr Wood was cc'd in this email - that always makes me cautious!) The branch accounts however showed nearly $1000 for hall hire costs in expenses for 2009 they further state. If the hall was free why then the expense?

In response to that I would ask another question: Standard practice would be to requisition the deposit as an expense, pay for the hall, then after its been used process the refund back through revenue; so was that done? If so there would be an amount recorded against expenses and against revenues.

This person further claims that the branch spent less than $1000 for an event, but the branch records show $3000 was claimed as the expense for that event and training costs combined. The allegation made is: there was no training so why the discrepancy?

At the same time as "the money disappeared", they further claim, a member had been signing blank "chits' (I assume these are requestion/expenses claims).

This person also states they were told there would be an independent audit of the branch but they doubt one actually happened. I have to ask here: When did PI's become auditors? And I think one was done but I am willing to stand corrected on that.

This person states they no longer receive minutes of meetings and indicate they are being excluded.

And more...

Quote:
You can see from your information. The inner west branch funds should be around the same amount as East branch. It used to be.

I also feel that there is an over statement of animals coming in for (this branch), it's gone up quite considerably since (edit) the fraud (was alleged)...

Bank balances don't lie.
Any comments are welcome.
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an eagle.
# RE: Another take on on the takean eagle. 2012-09-20 20:02
Well well N.B. you made these allegations of fraud against the branch back in 2010 and you are well aware that as a result the Chair arranged with Stan Wood to have its finances audited. No wrongdoing was found on audit.

You have now made your allegations public on this website and defamed hardworking Inner West members even though you know that they are not true.

It is not rational to say that Inner West funds should be around the same as East Branch and I don't know how you would know what East Branch finances are anyway.

What proof do you have to say the branch overstates the number of animals in care? Are you also saying they make false call sheets?
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Spartacus
# RE: Another take on on the takeSpartacus 2012-09-20 20:18
East Branch funds?

I just published them. :o
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a member
# RE: Another take on on the takea member 2012-09-20 22:04
I can't understand your the rationale of comparing two branches and saying they should be the same. They have different amounts of members, quantity of animals and fundraising capacities.

East branch for years has been a failing branch. In 2008 - 2009 there was talk about joining the two branches, it was decided that instead IW would help East to rebuild. Also at this time IW paid East branch costs for GHFF for microchipping, release aviary and crehe fees. To this day East branch has not paid IW anything for their GHFF. IW has also financed some vet costs for East branch animals.
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slan0284
# mrslan0284 2013-02-04 14:46
This is incorrect information. Perhaps instead of spreading false information, if people are genuinely interested they should speak with East branch directly. Even more effective would be to look at your own branch and see how it can be improved...there is always room for growth and slagging off others will not achieve this.
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kurnell allegations
# RE: mrkurnell allegations 2013-02-05 10:01
Slan0284 peculiar you should be worried about false information. Spartacus should put up the story about your involvement in the kurnell allegations.
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a member
# RE: mra member 2013-03-02 17:11
How do you know this information is incorrect? Your name gives your identity away, you only joined WIRES in late 2008 and were not a member of East branch.
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Monkey
# Re:Another take on a takeMonkey 2013-03-09 22:29
Inner West did not pay for any GHFF fee's for East Branch in 2008 -2009 so slan0284 is correct. If they did it would show in the minutes. It does not. Inner West stated it would help out vermin proof the Hendy aviay's for subsequent use of the aviary's, but this is untrue.

Fundraising capacities are ment to be there for fundraising for the payment for vet bills and animal cost nothing more. So you should be able to compare two branches. Quanties of animals can be manipulated. It's easy, just log two, one dies, one survives. What you need to look at is who logs them. If they are logged by the call centre then it is more likely to be correct, You need to look at number logged by the call centre, verses the individual.

Inner west has had a larger increase in animals coming into care versus the neighbouring branches, Why ? How ? Who ?
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a member
# RE: Re:Another take on a takea member 2013-03-11 18:57
Hello Monkey,

Regardless of how many animals come in you still can't compare costs. Different animals have different needs in respect to vet fees, medications, and powdered food. Some branches charge for the powdered food others do not.

The minutes don't separate branch animals try checking East branch minutes for payments made for FF, fruit, microchipping there are none.

You are suggesting that IW is making up animals into care. What would be the purpose of this and where are you getting your figures?
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a member
# RE: Re:Another take on a takea member 2013-03-12 09:40
Monkey,
Your previous posts accused IW BMC of stealing $14000 from the branch, however when challenged to provide the evidence you have for this you didn't do so. Now you say the branch is making up animals, can you please provide the evidence you have for this, I am sure the readers would be very interested in your information
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Monkey
# Re: Another take on a takeMonkey 2013-03-14 18:05
A Member.
I stated Inner West payed for the PI and others confirmed this, stating not only Stan Wood but also Caroline Enfield help out by contributing $500 each. (neither has denied this fact)
Why don't members asked who payed for the PI, then they can find out for themselves.
I did NOT state IW BMC of stealing $14,000. Your the only one stating this. Read the posts.
As for branch animals, members can see the statistics for themselves.
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member
# RE: Re: Another take on a takemember 2013-03-15 20:51
Perhaps stealing was the wrong word; however you have repeatedly stated the IW used funds to be used branch purposes were 'misappropriated' to pay for a PI. You now state others confirm this; which others? I haven't seen anyone else confirm this. You also fail to produce any evidence to support your claims,why is that, maybe because your claims are false. How can you determine animal statistics show that people are making animals up? and why would anyone bother? I think you are a person with a grudge against the IW branch. You should take your concerns to the appropriate regulatory authority if there is any substance to them, but then maybe you have and they found no wrongdoing....
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Broken Arrow
# RE: Re: Another take on a takeBroken Arrow 2013-03-16 14:57
No body confirmed that IW paid for the PI, everyone was telling you that they too were investigated which you already knew. If you bothered to read the WSC meeting minutes you would have known who paid for the PI.

Do you really think that Stan Wood and Caroline Enfield would answer you via this site? And even if they did do it they would most likely decline to answer. I have no idea why they would put there own money in when WIRES donors were paying the bill.

I did as you suggested and looked at the IW statics and they are entered by the SRO. If you think something is wrong why don't you write a complaint to the GM or new volunteer support Manager and get them to look into it.
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monkey mischief
# RE: Re:Another take on a takemonkey mischief 2013-03-15 14:31
Monkey, have you made a formal complaint about all of this garbage to the Office of Gaming?
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a visit to Kurnell
# RE: Another take on on the takea visit to Kurnell 2012-09-20 22:08
it is time to look at the link between this person and her friend who was the star witness in the pantamine set up by the board. An intriguing tale of revenge and deals with a private investigator paid for by the donors. Many members were dragged into it and left Wires in disgust. Could be the reason for the number of members dropping by 500 in 2010-11.
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Avenger
# LIEYING with dogs.Avenger 2012-09-21 07:42
I know that that person got week at the knees when it appeared that the matter would have to be cross questioned on oath when the allegation was challenged. As it will be. I just hope the Board can afford it. I am suspecting that the missing $306.000 must be salted for the fighting fund. It certainly didn't go on animals.
Quote:
That Person has a very poor memory according to our records.
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Flee
# Lieying with dogsFlee 2013-02-05 21:06
Oh Avenger the Board can afford it they will just spend donors money.
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no name
# rescuing problemsno name 2013-02-05 17:51
WIRES has a real problem rescuing animals these days. Speak to any vet clinic and they will tell you that animals are left there for days waiting to be picked up. Where have all the carers gone?
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answer to no name
# RE: rescuing problemsanswer to no name 2013-02-05 21:56
WIRES is not doing what it is getting donations for ie to rescue and care for the animals. It is being given money on false pretences. There are not enough carers as the number of members has dropped. Many comments have been made on reformwires that this is because members are not looked after and they leave. Solution is get real members on the board who understand what real members need.
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Willy wagtail
# Call me....Willy wagtail 2013-02-11 22:57
They don't bother calling members for certain species, they just let them hang out at the vet's, or MOP's, with the animal quite often dying in the mean time. The call centre seams to have plenty of time for gas bagging without doing their job properly.
What are they paid for....
How are member's meant to know that there is an animal around the corner that is in need of a carer, if they don't bother calling.....
It's all about image.....
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a member
# RE: Another take on on the takea member 2013-03-02 17:14
Funny that she should accuse someone else of animal cruelty when she has had issues raised about her quality of care. Bit like the pot calling the kettle black me thinks.
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so true
# RE: Another take on on the takeso true 2013-03-08 07:06
Problem is she has protection of the board because she helped the board pursue Chris Lloyd. While the board has members from the time of the private investigation she will not have to answer for anything.
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a member
# RE: Another take on on the takea member 2013-03-10 12:47
Maybe for now she has protection, but they won't be on the Board forever!
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currawong
# RE: Another take on on the takecurrawong 2012-09-20 22:47
I would agree with the eagle, and would suggest the author of these allegations clarify why the accounts of one branch should be the same as a neighbour (east branch) and also why would the author be happy to continue to do rescues and take animal supplements paid for by the hard working volunteers of the Inner West branch s/he is complaining about when according to him/her it is corrupt. Currawong smells a very tasty rat
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Spartacus
# And another another take...Spartacus 2012-09-20 23:14
OK. This person has written me again and thanked me for my voice (you haven’t heard me sing!)

Anyway, this person claims they were bullied by... - (I won’t name them – lets just call them “bird of prey”) - and it was also when “bird of prey” arrived that membership in the branch declined. And this person only contacted Stan Wood because “bird of prey” forced them to do so (through circumstance I assume).

The allegations this person made included:

> cards and calendars sold, but profit was not recorded (an amount between $600-$900 roughly).

> $1,000 was claimed for equipment, but nothing about this appears in the minutes.

> The minutes show $4,000 for food and equipment combined which appears excessive for a one month period in a branch that should run for around $10,000 - $12,000 per annum.

> $1,400 for catering (chicken & rice) at a RICC of 30 people - $46.66/head (was it Kashmir Rice? I love Kashmir Rice) - the catering was done in-house. The previous year (bought sandwiches) only cost $1,200 for 70 people - $17.14/head.

This person questions the expenditure of $37,596 for Inner West in 2010-2011, believing that fund-raising wouldn’t cover this amount. They ask if the fraud is being covered by other branches.

I can help out with that question: On page 24 of the Fair Trading return it shows Inner West took in $37,347 leaving a loss of $249 for the year.

I’m off to put my head in a bucket after I put my fingers in my ears.
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currawong
# RE: And another another take...currawong 2012-09-20 23:32
I believe this person made these allegations; and the response of IW branch was to volunteer for the auditing process whereby the branch was not randomly selected but put forward for auditing for that year to address this member's concerns. My understanding is that there were no significant concerns found by the auditors and that this is documented in the branch's minutes. (which would be available to her/him) Therefore the allegations of fininacial mismanagement and whatever else is being suggested by this person were resolved over a year ago. I am not sure why s/he is raising it again, perhaps ther is another agenda?
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a visit to Kurnell
# RE: And another another take...a visit to Kurnell 2012-09-21 06:47
She is rattling the cage for the one in East Branch.
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slan0284
# mrslan0284 2013-02-04 14:40
Why you make allegations about East branch is not logical. This has nothing to do with other branchs and the prolific conversations broadcast the dirty washing and perpetuate the sotories...must have free time ... do more reswcues and help out !!!
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magpie
# RE: And another another take...magpie 2012-09-21 07:07
Maybe this person could consider volunteering for the treasurer position for the branch. That way she could be assured everything was in order.
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a certainty
# RE: Another take on on the takea certainty 2012-09-22 08:56
It is a certainty in WIRES that if there was any whiff of something wrong in Inner West Branch the Board would investigate.
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Meal worm
# RE: Another take on on the takeMeal worm 2012-09-23 05:56
And they have, twice once with the auditors at Inner West request and the other with the private investigator.
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member
# RE: Another take on on the takemember 2012-09-23 08:06
Maybe this person is partly right on one point when she says that the real reason for WIRES hiring a PI was not to get Mr Lloyd but to investigate "fraud" in the Inner West Branch. The board might have told the star witness in the star chamber to encourage her that if she helped the private investigator in having a go at Chris Lloyd then they would include Inner West Branch in the investigation. What she really wanted was to harm the branch. This makes sense to those who know what really happened and have read the email sent by the person gloating after Chris Lloyd resigned who is now accusing Inner West on this site.
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Spartacus
# CuriouserSpartacus 2012-09-23 08:43
It is fortuitous that all this is coming to the surface. I am, as you are all aware, working on the background to the infamous "Kurnell Witch-hunt" that targeted Mr Lloyd when he stood up to... well, you know who to.

I have correspondence showing clearly that the Board was linking this "investigation" with a broader inquiry into the IW Branch. How did these two subjects get bundled together? There's no immediately logical connection. Itchy backs need scratching if you get my meaning. And if you know what I'm talking about then...

Any information from you lot would be gratefully accepted and kept in confidence... if you get my meaning.
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ex member
# RE: Curiouserex member 2012-09-23 20:03
Hope you put out everything on the Kurnell allegations Spartacus as it is the worst example of the bullying, discrimination and breaches of the constitution that the board has done and it harmed so many members. All board members who were involved should be banned from ever being elected again.
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still a member
# RE: Curiouserstill a member 2012-09-24 06:10
It doesn't matter who you are/were the problem was/is that if you disagree with the Board they will try to get rid of you and they do not follow the WIRES Constitution or polices to do it. You cannot get help from any outside body as it's consideredan internal dispute even though they are breaking the Constitution. The point is this can happen to anybody and it is wrong.

There are alot more of these circumstances going around still today. Its about the only time they think outside the box!
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Myrtle
# RE: CuriouserMyrtle 2013-02-06 07:39
Does anybody know how many board members involved in the kurnell allegations still sit on the board. Sure many are still there to give a bad name to all of them.
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guest
# RE: Curiouserguest 2013-02-06 19:17
Five Board members
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member
# RE: Curiousermember 2013-02-07 08:07
Shows that there has been little change in 2 years and that the same people stay on the board to keep control. Merrilee Verhoeven would be one of them. She and her husband think they have a right to rule the place without being elected under the constitution. Mike Jupp would be another, also there through the back door. Then there is the chair Bill Fortier,running the place like he was back in the police force. Don't know who the other 2 are but the 5 of them are well past their used by date and there should be a public enquiry on what they did.
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Margaret
# RE: CuriouserMargaret 2013-02-07 08:10
Great to see you have comments back Spartacus. Still more to tell and still the need to try to keep the bastards honest.
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Its time
# curiouserIts time 2012-09-23 23:07
Well I don't know what you are referring to specifically here. But I do know that with the comments from my local SMC rep at the time of Mr Lloyds early reports to members, my first instinct was this bloke is on a hiding to nothing. I remember quite a few of us discussing his early reports, and knowing the SMC Reps as we did, we thought Chris' days were numbered. Time proved us right.
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Meal worm
# RE: Another take on on the takeMeal worm 2012-09-23 11:01
I think it was lets kill two birds with one stone. No pun intended.
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yellowtail
# RE: Another take on on the takeyellowtail 2012-09-23 12:33
So what you are saying is that she betrayed a friend to so many to harm her branch and the Board did a deal with her as they were so keen to harm him. There was so much talk at the time about why she would say what she said against Chris Lloyd and it is now making sense. wonder when she gets a hand to go on the board.
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margaret
# RE: Another take on on the takemargaret 2012-09-24 16:28
You were allowed to be present when the star chamber heard what was said against you but Mr Lloyd was not even told what was said against him, if anything was ever said. No one knows as the secret report was kept secret from everyone. Wonder what it is costing Wires to keep this report hidden.
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Another take on the take
# TruthurtsAnother take on the take 2012-09-22 22:04
So the truth is out, truth hurts.
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Truthurts
# Another take on the takeTruthurts 2012-09-24 08:13
So the truth is out, truth hurts.
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birdy
# RE: Another take on on the takebirdy 2012-12-11 09:47
Even if a hall is for free sometimes you still pay an insurance deposit which you receive back. This is for any damage or breakages.
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Guest
# RE: What Was WIRES Hiding?Guest 2012-09-20 11:08
The members know that Wires gets in a lot of money from donations and bequests and that they dont get much benefit from it to use on animal care. These financial statements are the proof of what they have been complaining about. The members have no power to get anything done about it as the branch reps on the Wires Council are outnumbered by the Board and Board appointments so can't get any change. The other thing is that the Council does not make many decisions on where the money is spend. This is done by the Board and members and Council can't find out what is discussed or decided as minutes are kept hidden from them. Members could get a say on how money is spent if they could elect enough members to the Board who were not part of the group on the board and wanted to help members. This is impossible to do because the Board and the standard team reps which depend on board suport to be appointed outnumber the independent branch reps who turn up to council meetings. So it is impossible to get change and members will continue to give up and leave. The small membership shown in the 2011 financials is the proof to the government and donors that members are not happy. Donors dont understand how their money is spent and wasted. Pity the animals which need these members for help. The van diver is the only one of the large group of paid staff that does any hands on work.
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a member
# Thank youa member 2012-09-20 07:48
WIRES is like arriving at a holiday hotel you are exited when you get there. You find they haven't made up your room so you need to wait, when you get your room it's dirty, and the room service is tasteless and late! You become disillusioned with your holiday and leave never to return and you do not recommend it.
Keep going spartacus we commend you!
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guest
# RE: Thank youguest 2012-09-20 22:10
an excellent analogy
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a member
# Thank youa member 2012-09-20 07:24
Thank you spartacus for posting the annual reports for all the members and donors to see. Why this information is not given to members is clear. WIRES inc used to do a different version (which you have also posted thank you) and I don't know why they didn't at least do this for members and donors.
I am a member of other charities and I always recieve the annual report. I find this management is lost and ineifficient in everything they do and can't even get the basic things done.
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Joey
# RE: What Was WIRES Hiding?Joey 2012-09-19 16:47
It makes me sick to the stomach - I and many other carers struggle, sometimes not paying other bills, just to rehabilitate animals and this mob of gluttonous pigs live off the cream of dontations. If the general public knew about this the dontaions would dry up. Perhaps not a bad idea.
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guest
# RE: What Was WIRES Hiding?guest 2012-09-19 16:26
Well well well whod'a thought it? Are there any surprises here? Dont think so.
Oeh bias to wires is loud and clear.
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disheartened member
# unbelievabledisheartened member 2012-09-19 15:54
I am furious after reading this report. This information should be given to the papers, so that decent members of the public donating their money to Wires, can see just where it goes.I would never encourage anyone to donate to Head office only directly to the Branches. At least this way the money will be spent on food and medication. No wonder the Board like tripping around the country side on their weekends away together. How much do they spend every 6 to 8 weeks on food accommodation and travel money for these people to get together. They never seem to make any decision, every thing drags on for months before reaching a conclusion. With modern technology, why can't they do their meeting by Skype. It is disgusting.
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Jade
# UnbelievableJade 2012-09-20 11:01
What I find unbelievable is that the people who read this garbage actually believe it - obviously there are a few moles in WIRES who want to see it destroyed and they get away with lying to the members of WIRES and members of the pubic and other organisations with impunity - what a load of crap!
Does anyone ever question where they get their information from - no - you just believe it!
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Spartacus
# RE: UnbelievableSpartacus 2012-09-20 14:35
Jade... I hate to break the news to you but no one needs to question "where [rw.com] gets its information from" in this case because we've already told you where. These figures come from WIRES' own internal accounts and from the Department of Fair Trading (and we supplied you with copies). Any member of the public can get access to the Fair Trading returns: They are public documents! Do you think Fair Trading doctored the returns WIRES made? Does the conspiracy go that high up the chain? Call the X-files!

One word for you Jade: READ! Read the attached documents, do the calculations, check my work - it is all TRUE! Actually, if you had done that a bit earlier you might have figured out what they were doing and I wouldn't have to do it for you. You care for WIRES so much you don't even bother to check what those running it are doing with it.

You are a typical Board apologist - no matter the evidence and the volume thereof, you will always claim its just bitter people out to get you - victim victim victim. That is classic passive-aggressive bullying.

It is all true Jade!
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a member
# Unbelievablea member 2012-09-20 17:09
Hi Jade, What members want is every member to treated equally, fairness to all, transparency, good governance, leadership, and money to the care of the animals. What I find unbelievable is that it is allowed to continue, that no government department asks questions, when members ask questions they are lobbied against until they leave the very reason this site is anonymous.
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BigFoot
# UnbelievableBigFoot 2012-09-20 19:30
'What members want is every member to treated equally, fairness to all, transparency, good governance, leadership, and money to the care of the animals'

There is a dispute policy.
There is a respectful workplace policy.
There is governance.
There is transparency - you just don't like the outcomes. Get over it.
You sound like Thatcher who loved to go to Europe, disagree with everyone, then come back and claim she was in a majority of one.

'no government department asks questions'

Yes. Yes, they do, because the same people who feel they have to resort to this cowardly website have written to them all, over and over again, and every time WIRES has been investigated it has been found to be compliant, that is why it is still in business despite your best efforts.

If you have your way licensing will be deregulated, anyone can do what they like to any animal they pick up and we'll have put the clock back 50 years for native animal welfare.

Now stop this constant inward spiral of self-destructive denial and do something useful about real animal welfare issues - here's one to start with:

www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/sep/18/badger-cull-shot-in-the-dark?intcmp=239

or go for the live cattle export industry, or battery hens, or intensive piggeries, or the kangaroo cull, or support efforts for captive breeding - do something CONSTRUCTIVE for once in your sad, small, miserable, hate-filled lives.

Now slag me off because my only reason for joining WIRES was to learn about and help educate people about the amazing wildlife we are lucky to have in this country and I see nothing, NOTHING that has been posted on this pathetic site that shares that vision.
Every nasty comment you make will only strengthen my case.
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Spartacus
# I believe itSpartacus 2012-09-20 20:01
The link you give is to a Guardian article about the Labour Party (UK) doing a far better job than the conservatives.

Reading between the lines... you are insinuating that rw.com is a Liberal/conservative attack against the Labor stronghold of WIRES (You drag out Thatcher!). Sorry, no - that's your delusion.

Quote:
There is a dispute policy.
There is a respectful workplace policy.
There is governance.
Yes but none of them are applied with any fairness - that's our point. They might as well not exist if they are used to drive out those you don't like and protect only your friends.

Quote:
There is transparency - you just don't like the outcomes. Get over it.
So transparent WIRES wouldn't even hand over the annual report. I can't see it - some transparency. You don't like that we were the one's to produce it - get over it!

Quote:
You sound like Thatcher who loved to go to Europe, disagree with everyone, then come back and claim she was in a majority of one.
I'm in Central America!

All the causes you raise are very worthy ones - sincerely. And so is getting WIRES to spend some money on animals, and volunteers. To not waste the millions it begs from the public. To have it treat its members with respect.

It is the Board, Sir, and their conduct, that transforms the dream of WIRES into the filthy pit of nastiness that it is - an ego-salon for the pathetic.

Quote:
If you have your way licensing will be deregulated, anyone can do what they like to any animal they pick up and we'll have put the clock back 50 years for native animal welfare.
Anyone can do what they like now - WIRES has no respect within its own ranks or in the broader rehabilitation area. That happened well before I got here, mate! And if you are a back-stabbing filthy liar you can do what you want and get caught because you'll have friends near the top who will ignore your misdeeds. If this is progress then lets go back. Deregulation would mean personal responsibility (I do sound like Howard/Thatcher now) - it would be more of the same sans WIRES pointless, venal and wasteful interference - I call that: progress.

I rest my case.

[p.s. Is that you Stan?]
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Magnum P.I.
# RE: I believe itMagnum P.I. 2012-09-20 20:57
Well you know what they say about a man with a BigFoot - "He's with stupid."

Hello everyone.
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a member
# Bigfoota member 2012-09-20 21:44
Thank you Bigfoot, a few corrections

1. Dispute and respectful work place are the same policy, yes they exist but are not followed and there is no policy for a against the Board or Board member which I understand is what most complaints are about.

2. I wrote "good governance" which is not what WIRES has at the moment - it doesn't have all policies available for members to follow, policies that are on the intranet are incorrect and not updated, minutes for WSC meetings are not put onto the intranet for months, Board minutes are secret, problems with animal welfare, management micro-manages, bullies it members, uses private investigators to investigate it's members, ignors complaints by members, changes the rules to suit themselves, discriminates agaisnt joining members and stacks the WSC through its management teams.

3. Transparency - can't or won't release an annual report, won't release Board minutes, closes down discussion pages, won't advise management team contacts, closed meetings with no minutes, alledged grievances not given to each party, also donors are now not invited to the AGM.

4. Most Government departments that have jurisiction over WIRES have had many complaints over many different branches and over many years it's not just one person its many.

5. Deregulation doesn't mean people can do what they like, it just means WIRES would have to work to gain their membership, service their members, take care of their members.

I'm not slagging you off (unlike you to me) I'm stating the facts.
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guest
# RE: Unbelievableguest 2012-09-20 22:03
well bigfoot youve either only been around for 5 minutes else your a member of the board or sleeping with one of them.
No credibility Im afraid
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name withheld
# RE: Unbelievablename withheld 2012-09-22 09:22
Bigfoot you have to be a board member or someone close to them. Only a board member would know that government has been asked to investigate. You don't mention though that Fair Trading suggested that WIRES change its structure to a corporation so that it would be more transparent and better controlled. Not accepted. You also don't mention that OEH want the WILDLIFE COUNCIL to make sure each wildlife caring organisation has complete grievance policies. Will have none of that and it looks like WIRES will go so far to avoid this and will even leave the Council.You don't say that there is not a policy in WIRES for members to complain against the Board.
You can't rubbish those that want change by saying they are not involved in fighting real animal welfare issues as you don't know what they do to fight other issues as you probably don't talk to them. Those I know are committed to fight all animal welfare and the reform of WIRES to get a better result for the volunteers and wildlife care is one of the important fights. I will not slag you and will not attack anyone personally. People on both sides on reformwires have name called and that is unfortunate but I know many who want reform have been treated very badly and there is no way of getting help and that might explain their anger.
Everyone writing on this site would agree with your point about wildlife. If all was well in WIRES and members respected the Board and Council and were confident their interests and the wildlife were being protected, then this site would have no momentum and would not have continued on for 11 months.
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TUBICRQ 1
# JadedTUBICRQ 1 2012-09-23 07:57
You sound very young and enthusiastic. this concerns me as it is the formula for being a target.
Quote:
Try posting such an eloquent opinion on a wires site.
I was censured because the manager did not like my TONE in a discrete and frank private letter to her. I was not given a right of reply. I was processing over 400 animals a year at the time. Bill Thompson ignored my correspondence despite him asking in writing for a response to them censuring me. by doing so I was denied all my entitlements as a member. Bill Thompson failed to abide by the constitution. I was silly enough to point out that animals were dying unnecessarily due to the incompetence of staff and the decline in membership due to the belligerence of management. The problems were never addressed or acknowledged hence the need for Reformwires to save our organisation and save wildlife. Blind Freddy can even see how It is becoming derelict. I resigned rather than be tarnished and implicit with misuse of donations and bequests and animal neglect. My time efforts and money are now being used more resourcefully and I find myself able rescue animals that wires cannot provide for without the wires 2% subsidy. In fact Jade I have saved myself in excess of 11,000 dollars and recently have been offered sponsorship for all wildlife care expenses. I.e. there is no waste and I have the freedom from the board of wires while rescuing and caring for animals reported to them and not rescued with the knowledge that wires are happy for me to care for their animals and do not have to part with their 2%. and Quote:
31 staff are kept in a job with money that was intended to keep wildlife alive.
Jade There is Life after wires. It is such a shame to see it so badly managed. I wish you well.
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Monkey
# Inner_W-LeaksMonkey 2013-01-28 15:10
Inner West paid for the PI, Stan even personally contributed $500.
The members were not informed, they just did all the fundraising to pay for it all.
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Grasshopper
# RE: Inner_W-LeaksGrasshopper 2013-01-30 20:09
Hey Monkey, Why would Inner West pay to investigate itself? Do tell....
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Brigette Sharp
# MsBrigette Sharp 2013-02-01 14:52
God, I wish we had $20K to waste! If we did we wouldn't have spent it on a witch hunt. Monkey, I think you need to actually look at what happened. Inner West were one of the subjects of the investigation not the instigators.
Brigette Sharp
Chair, IW Branch
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guest
# RE: Inner_W-Leaksguest 2013-02-05 18:46
What you say is very interesting Monkey as I also heard a Board member had put in their own money to pay for the PI out of hatred for chris lloyd and a desire to destroy him. Inner West Branch were also investigated by the PI without any grounds. Looks to me that it is true that Stan Wood did put in his own money as it has now been said by you and it is well known that you are friends with SL, who has connections with some of the old members on the board.
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another guest
# RE: Inner_W-Leaksanother guest 2013-02-06 06:56
I also heard this but it was two Board members.
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and another guest
# RE: Inner_W-Leaksand another guest 2013-02-08 19:11
Yes another guest you are right. Stan Wood and Caroline Enfield who were both board members put in their own money as well as the donors money to pay for the private investigator to get Chris Lloyd and other members they personally did not like. It was to hide the large amount that had to be paid to the PI who was brought up from Victoria. A disgrace that members of a board of a NSW registered charity paid their own money to get what they wanted without any respect for the law and fairness. This behavior should have been examined in a public investigation but ICAC does not have the power to invesrigate charities. It has remained hidden until now it has been revealed on reformwires.Many knew about it but there is nothing that can be done about it. Caroline Enfield is still in charge of raptor care but at least the poor emu has been moved from her backyard.
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member
# RE: Inner_W-Leaksmember 2013-02-06 07:48
thanks monkey for spilling the beans on the private contribution by stan wood to pay for the witch hunt against chris lloyd inner west branch and other members who were making a noise for change. your contribution stan wood saw the loss to wires of many dedicated animal carers and wires suffers today as a result
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member
# RE: Inner_W-Leaksmember 2013-02-12 11:01
Stan Wood must really hate Inner West branch and Chris Lloyd to put in $500 of his own money. Guess he was getting good money from his contract with Wires at the time.
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guest
# RE: Unbelievableguest 2012-09-20 22:14
hey Jade Beleive it baby, while is sounds like a bad dream, unfortunately its all true and if you stick around long enough you will find yourself to be another victim
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Carla
# ex memberCarla 2015-02-17 21:17
Yes this is true, and why myself and 12 other I know left WIRES the past year.
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