Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luck

[WARNING TO ABORIGINAL AND TORRES STRAIT ISLANDER PEOPLES: We have been contacted by representatives of the Indigenous community who are offended by the name some members of the Board of WIRES have taken for themselves. It is not reformWIRES’ intention to cause offense to Indigenous people. We only wish to report the truth. We apologise for any offense this article may cause the true Elders of our country. Spartacus, 8/11/11.]

rwsqThe last article on reformWIRES was about the need for constitutional change in WIRES and highlighted some undemocratic practices. One practice mentioned was that of representatives of Standards Teams having the right to vote on the WIRES State Council. This practice is seen by many to disadvantage the legitimate representatives elected by members of branches, by giving equal representation to Standards Teams’ representatives elected by less than ten undisclosed individuals. It is our view that this undemocratic tradition potentially favours the current Board, particularly as details about the actions and constituents of these teams are not wholly public, and are very much influenced by the Board.

Go to topGo straight to commentsAdd a commentIn August 2010 the power given to these representatives was extended when they were for the first time permitted to hold positions on the WIRES Board. As a few respondents to this website have commented, there is one Board member who directly benefited from this change: The WIRES Secretary.

Developments in the Secretary’s career in mid to late 2010 are the very exemplar and genesis of the current undermining of local representative democracy in WIRES. They demonstrate why reform from within WIRES is not possible. Some have argued that the battle for reform should be waged internally, not publicly. The events of August 2010 suggest that this is not a battle fairly fought. Conventions are readily ignored and the battle-lines redrawn at will. It reveals a battlefield strewn with not only the fallen, but with those who have fought and won only to find the victory dishonoured. August 2010 is when everything changed.

In the beginning…

The fact that official business is used to flaunt this sarcasm... speaks volumes about the contempt in which [the Board] hold the Council

The Secretary belongs to a group known as “the elders”. It is believed by some that a number of Board members have become entrenched and feel entitled to their positions. In recent times the term “old guard” has been coined to describe this cohort. Some Board members, including the Secretary, have responded by “owning the label” and refer to themselves as “the elders”. This label is employed by the Secretary in official correspondence, which is considered as goading hubris rather than self-veneration by some that are aware of its meaning: The fact that official business is used to flaunt this sarcasm by those who own the label, speaks volumes about the contempt in which they hold the Council. Most outside of the State Council misinterpret this reference, thinking it to be a self congratulation at “the elders” own longevity. They are by no means the longest serving members of WIRES.

The Secretary joined WIRES in 1997. The details about when she first became the representative of her Branch at a state level, and when she first became Secretary of WIRES, are lost in the annals. She was Secretary in February 2008, six months after the constitution was changed, when the newly inaugurated Board first sat at a WIRES State Council meeting. It was four months later in July 2008 that the Secretary appeared on the Administration and Training Standards Team (ATST) at its inaugural meeting. She has remained on the ATST and as WIRES Secretary ever since.

The first Standards Team representative attended at Council in May 2008. Evidence is that from the outset Standards Teams’ representatives were granted the right to vote at Council. This has not been without some controversy. The newly adopted constitution at clause 4.1 was very clear that Standards Teams had the right to representation at Council, provided that the Council approved of this. The obvious problem with this mechanism, should they be allowed to vote, is that if the need arose to remove these representatives at a later stage, they would themselves form part of the very Council voting on their removal. This strange feedback loop, besides creating a conflict of interest, is further complicated by a contradiction in the Constitution.

In the “definitions” at clause 1.5 of the WIRES Constitution it is certain as to who is entitled to represent the membership on the State Council. There is no mention of standing committees and Standards Teams in this part of the document. It describes the Council as “the guiding body” made up of members “elected by their branches”. This definition is further reinforced by the description of a Councillor as a member “elected by his/her branch”. Here it is clear that the Council is to be made up of Branch representatives exclusively.

It has been reported that in order to make the [constitution] more accessible to non-experts, these same non-experts volunteered to rewrite sections of it

This is not the only mistake in this section. The WIRES Board is not mentioned at all in the definitions. Expert lawyers were paid to write this document, but by many accounts the draft produced could not be understood by those representing the organisation at the time. It has been reported that in order to make the document more accessible to non-experts, these same non-experts volunteered to rewrite sections of it. This may be the reason for the conflicting definitions and obvious omissions one can only speculate.

The conflict of meaning between clauses 1 and 4 has resulted in confusion as to whether Standards Teams’ representatives are entitled to vote and stand for the Board. Some believe they are permitted to attend Council meetings but solely as advisors, claiming the conflicting clauses were an inelegant attempt to codify this. This interpretation seems to have been ignored. Rather it seems a convention was established by way of compromise. To work around the incongruity, representatives of Standards Teams were allowed to vote at Council as per clause 4, but as per clause 1 they were not considered for Board positions. This practice continued until August 2010.

Out and Out

On 16 July 2010 the Secretary was defeated in a contest for the position of State Council Representative at her Branch’s Annual General Meeting. She had held this position, and been Secretary to the entire organisation, for many years. It is well known in her branch that she used the Branch’s membership list in the lead up to this vote to canvass every member for support. In light of this, the result was a resounding rejection of her performance as a Councillor, if not also as Secretary. It is felt by some that she took this defeat to heart. They suggest as evidence her self-imposed status as officially and indefinitely “inactive” from duties involving animal care. She has remained inactive within the branch for over two years at least. Within her branch there are few reasons given for her defeat, but many think her participation in the introduction of the new constitution and her closeness to the Board and “elders” were the primary causes.

It was widely rumoured throughout WIRES at this time that “the elders” would not allow the Branch members’ rejection of her to be an obstacle to her continuing as Secretary. It was believed that arrangements would be made to ensure that the wishes of the Secretary’s branch were not honoured. Either the membership is made up of psychic-detectives or there was merit to these prognostications, because she remains as Secretary to this day even without the support of her branch.

Without the legitimate endorsement of her branch, the Secretary at the upcoming WIRES AGM in October 2010 was required to step down from the Council and from office. Her involvement with the ATST becomes very important to her political survival at this point. From our sources, although the workings of Standards Teams are opaque at best, the ATST was comprised entirely of eight Councillors including all bar one of the eight Board members serving at the time. This included a number of “elders”. Put plainly: Except for one person, the ATST was the Board. The other non-board member of the ATST was thier council representative, was from the Chair's branch, was appointed by the Board, and related to the Chair by marriage*. If the rules were changed and representatives of Standards Teams were permitted to be on the Board, then the ATST might be one way for her to retain her position.

(*See the table at the end of this article for more information about ATST composition.)

One or The Other

A WIRES State Council meeting was held on 21 August 2010. Early in the proceedings a discussion, not on the agenda, was had as to whether the Council would allow Standards Teams’ representatives to run as candidates for the Board. A motion to allow it was forwarded and on a show of hands was passed. It was the representative of the ATST, to which the Secretary belonged, that put this motion to the Council. There were 25 Council members in attendance that day from both Branches and Standards Teams. The result of the vote was 22 in favour. The result was a break with established practice and a lucky break for the Secretary.

When one adds the seven Standards Teams’ representatives to the seven board members present, there were 14 out of 25 with a potential vested interest in the motion succeeding. Put another way, 56% of those in attendance were from at least one of these two groups. Combined they could have passed it without further support from other Council members.

This change meant that should the Secretary secure the approval of the ATST then she could remain as a Councillor and run once more for Secretary at the upcoming AGM. However, she was not the only member of the ATST to recently lose the endorsement of her branch. There was one other person, also on the Board and a fellow “elder”, who had been rejected by her branch too.

Later in the meeting’s proceedings the Secretary’s husband donated some of his professional advice by way of a presentation. The up shot of this was the recommendation that a new Standards Team be created with very similar objectives to that of the ATST. Some would argue this new team would allow both “elders” to keep the positions that their branches had just removed from them. It would certainly be a fortuitous development coinciding as it did with an obvious need. The Council did not see immediate need for another team however and decided to defer the matter.

Fifty-fifty

She was back on the Board with her fellow “elders”, still the Secretary, and regardless of the wishes of her Branch

Without the new team suggested by the Secretary’s husband there was only one chance for her to stay on the Council and Board. She would need to be nominated to represent the ATST. At some time between the August meeting and the AGM on 16 October a vote was held within the ATST. According to the minutes of this meeting the ballot resulted in a tie. It was apparently agreed by all present that the only way to break the deadlock was to flip a coin. The Secretary was the lucky winner, and at the WIRES AGM 2010 she was back, this time as the ATST representative. She was back on the Board with her fellow “elders”, still the Secretary, and regardless of the wishes of her Branch.

Dust to Dust

There is much confusion over what is democracy, not only in WIRES but in the field of political science as well. In fact democracy takes many forms. In WIRES decisions are not made through direct democracy: Every matter is not put to each and every individual for consideration. Some have argued therefore that WIRES is not democratic at all and need not consider democratic processes. That is bunkum and ignorant. The constitution is quite clear that members’ wishes are to be expressed through elected representatives.

No credible representational system is designed for the deliberate unequal distribution of power which is manifest here by allowing standards teams to vote

This is representational democracy, and representational democracy is all about people. Although the people in this system do not directly make decisions on each issue, their representatives are directly responsible to them for the decisions made. The representatives are not free to do as they wish. They are entitled not to keep power, as power does not belong to them; it belongs to the people they represent. No credible representational system is designed for the deliberate unequal distribution of power which is manifest here by allowing standards teams to vote. The membership is the powerbase and the representatives need to be directly accountable to it.

WIRES State Council Representatives should be accountable to those they represent. The most fundamental accountability is had when the members choose who will represent them through local branch elections. When this fundamental mechanism is side-stepped, as it was with the Secretary, the foundations of legitimacy are undermined. The decision to let Standards Teams' representatives vote at Council and sit on the Board allows those Board members to be unaccountable to the membership by distancing them from the legitimate powerbase. A membership cannot affect change within a representational democracy when accountability is dodged in this way.

In closing, there is one loose end in this history that needs to be tied up. That “elder” who lost her branch’s support, and missed out on the position of Council Representative on the ATST, did not return to Council. In recent months however she has appeared on the NSW Wildlife Council as WIRES’ representative and now NWC Vice Chair. The NWC is the state’s peak policy body. Neither the WIRES State Council nor the WIRES membership was consulted about this highly influential appointment which affects every member of WIRES, if not every wildlife carer in NSW. It was made by the WIRES Board exclusively. We wish her the best of luck but expect she will not need it.

 

THE ATST AS AT AUGUST 2010

 Board - Chair

 Branch Rep

 Board - Secretary

 Branch Rep - lost branch endorsement 2010

 Board - ordinary

 Branch Rep - lost branch endorsement 2010

 Board - Treasurer

 Branch Rep

 Board - ordinary

 Branch Rep

 Board - ordinary

 Branch Rep

 Board - ordinary

 Branch rep

 Outsider

 ATST Council Rep^
 Member of chair’s branch
 Chair's ex-wife's new partner
 Replaced Chair as Branch Rep Oct 2010

 ^Note: Branch reps cannot be ATST rep as they already represent a branch at council.

Comments  

 
AGM time
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckAGM time 2012-09-18 16:31
Now is the time the board works out who it wants to be elected to the new board at the AGM in October. Those board members who have not been elected branch reps need to be found a place as a rep of a standard team so there is shuffling of members to get board members on the council as team reps. Whats the bet that Mike Jupp who is a board member but lost the vote to be branch rep will appear as the rep for the reptile team so he can stay on the board and Stan Wood appears as the rep of the governance team to be resurrected to the board. All of this is done to stop outsiders getting elected to the board.
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a  volunteer
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Lucka volunteer 2011-11-18 06:51
There’s been some discussion on this site regarding the SMST Brushtail possum diet and most have agreed that the Board has wasted not only the time of the Councillors at meetings but the teams efforts to satisfy the Board. At the AGM the last SMST rep got a NO from the Board, ok why? Let’s start with the application and qualifications. Joined WIRES in 1998, first possum course 1999. She has rescued and cared for Sugar, Squirrel, Feathertail, Yellow bellied and Greater Gliders, Ringtail, Brush & Pygmy Possums, Echidnas, Antechinus and Bandicoots, (lucky Hawkesbury to have these animals!!. She was a member of Blue Mtns BMC since 1999, on the steering Committee from 2002 to form the Hawkesbury Branch in 2003, was a constructive member of the SMST for 4 years, their rep for 2 years and secretary for 1 year. Most of us as members thought that to be a member of any animal team each individual applying should have experience, right? Aren’t they the teams we should feel confident in asking for assistance if we have an animal problem? So, let’s ask WHY the Board said no?? I guess we silly volunteers know why, she just wouldn’t kiss [EDIT]!!!
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Mutt
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckMutt 2011-11-18 09:59
Yeah I’ll have to object here. Neither Board, Council, BMC or any other WIRES “elder” has any qualification whatsoever to justify their positions and recommendations on any any of the above mentioned subjects. Just because you have cared for possums does not give you the same knowledge or understanding of biology, nutrition or behaviour. Being on a “committee” of a granny club does not count towards your academic or profesional credits. Nevermind consulting academics, vets or some form or living organism that studied these subjects for 6+ years. But hey, what do they know with their fancy books and all. I have been playing with model planes and simulators for the past 34 years of my life, are you comfortable with me flying a Qantas plane with 600 people on board based on my “experience”?
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guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckguest 2011-11-22 11:52
That member as well as others in the small mammals team deserve medals for the way they stood their ground against the board. They obtained expert advice from scientists and other accademics and took so much flack to make sure the diet which was finally accepted was the best for the possums in care.
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Wattlebird
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckWattlebird 2011-11-17 16:18
Anybody reading all the above comments can see that the current structure of WIRES is totally inadequate. We have to all start working together to decide on a plan of action to change the situation and get in professionals with adequate qualifications to run WIRES. They need to appoint current qualified members to positions to enable volunteers to do their job of caring for our wildlife with the best training under their belt and support when they need it. How about an Extraordinary General Meeting be called, the Board removed and a qualified professional employed to oversee the setting up of a new system and get things moving in the right direction.
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-17 21:38
How much money would the person want and where do we get it? Would they be allowd to do their job after the first 5 minutes?
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guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckguest 2011-11-19 17:47
Think Wattlebird’s idea is for someone like an independent administrator. An administrator would cost money but it would be so worthwhile to set up Wires as a transparent and professionaly run charity. Members would then know they were being looked after and respect their board and people supporting it would know their money was being used for the members. An administrator has full control so couldn’t be undermined. The cost could be found by reducing the number of pen pushers.
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-19 21:22
How many pen pushers are there ad what do they do? Trying to htink theres the training person and the membership person and the office manager and the finances person abd fundraiser and some part time call centre eople and 2 van drivers. the call centre is for the city and some branches like blue mts and central cost so about 5 ml people and the membership. If you got a hosptal with 2000 staff you got a lot of pen pushers too. Just so long as I don’t got to do part of those jobs if you get a administrator with their money! No time for animals.
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battered
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckbattered 2011-11-16 12:51
Regarding the appointment by the Bored of a member to the NSW Wildlife Council: how can this happen?
What policy or criterion is written into our Constitution regarding this important role?
Our previous representative on NSW Wildlife Council was less than satisfactory. Is the new appointee more qualified?
Why is there not a transparent process in place?
It smells awfully like more of the same dictatorial rule we’ve suffered for years.
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-17 11:15
Perhpas its like our branch. No one nomintes themselves but waits and whinges about whoever does get in.
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white ant
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckwhite ant 2011-11-17 13:37
There is nothing in the Constitution regarding WIRES members representing on outside bodies. This role started in 2006 and the same 2 members have been in this roll up until to this year when one person resigned. The GM was appointed to fill the gap there was and has never been any voting on this position. One of the same members was also on the Nature Conservation Council. No report has ever been given to WIRES members from the people in both these roles.
Maybe if the position was advertised to members there might be some applications!
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guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckguest 2011-11-18 23:50
Anyone who is paid staff at WIRES is not a volunteer and should not be representing the organisation on the NSW Wildlife Council as they have a very clear conflict of interest. They can’t represent the Wildlife Council and WIRES at the same time as the resources they seek are from the same sources and the interests that WIRES have are the same that the Wildlife Council also has, when it comes to lobbying Government for favours or seeking corporate or other funding which organisation are they going to really be working for? I suspect it will be the one that is paying them. That kind of undermines the Wildlife Council doesn’t it? Which organisation are they going to choose? You can’t have allegiances to both at the same time. The whole situation is a farce.
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anon
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckanon 2011-11-22 07:33
What is the aim of the Wildlife Council? They never seem to be doing very little. The website is not updated regularly. If they are receiving Government funding it seems like a waste of funds.
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a guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Lucka guest 2011-11-16 09:02
Don’t believe it Mutt. Metro branches are lucky as most are free from board interference in their day to day work and are not stuck with the same council rep year in year out. If your rep is a board member they never give any other member the chance to be on the council. Only problem some metro branches have had is when their members ask questions and want reform and that’s when the board reacts against them. The members of one metro branch have been defamed without knowing why and all 3 members of that branch who stood for management teams were found by the board to be unsuitable and this was publically anounced to all membership. Good idea white ant. For such a large organisation with so many members, staff and dealing with so much money, an association run by a committee, sorry, board, really isn’t appropriate. I think WIRES should be looking at a corporate structure with professtional officers.
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a guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Lucka guest 2011-11-16 08:54
The Board should be standing down and calling a general meetting of all members to deal with this and stop the airing of dirty linen. There must be a lot of things wrong that should be fixed.
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Mutt
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckMutt 2011-11-14 20:21
All of the above seems to be confined to country branches? It would be good to hear from metro branches too?
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white ant
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckwhite ant 2011-11-15 10:12
It looks like where ever there is a Board member or ex Board member, there are problems. Maybe no WIRES members should be on the Board! Or at the very least there should be some criteria in regards to skills required to do the job.
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guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckguest 2011-11-16 01:08
An interesting observation white ant.
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battered
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckbattered 2011-11-16 09:13
Very good point white ant. Such an important voluntary position should be just like a paid position. There should be position description, essential requirements, minimum qualifications etc. It’s peculiar, but obvious, that some professionals are the ones that have been hounded from the organisation.
I recall years ago the recommendation about WIRES needing to offer greater remuneration to attract high quality applicants for the vacant (at time) CEO position. This was done. However, soon after, the SMC (as the Board was then) made changes which enabled one of themselves to take on the position; convenient cronyism. This was supposed to be temporary, but to WIRES detriment, it went onnnnn... So, our Chairperson, SMC Rep of a country branch, also became CEO. From my understanding, he certainly didn’t have the skills that had been previously required; did they reduce his pay accordingly? I presume not. So how many other WIRES members are allowed to reside 400klms from the Branch they are members of?
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galah
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckgalah 2011-11-16 14:44
there seems to be no problem for members to be in a branch if they do not live there if they are connected to the board.
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It’s time
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckIt’s time 2011-11-19 08:22
Yes this issue was discussed over and over in my area as we thought a member being the paid CEO was also against the [then] constitution.
Certainly the lack of selection criteria in the appointment of the CEO position was a very questionable decision.
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a guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Lucka guest 2011-11-13 12:33
This isn’t on the current topic but has to do with the Board. I’d like to know why in July 2010 Central West Branch received a Donation from NPWS for $5,000 to go towards paying Vet bills. Did NPWS give similar grants to other branches? If not, why not as it looks like favourtism. Is there any connection with the grant and the fact that the Chair of this branch was a member of the Board.
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Mutt
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckMutt 2011-11-13 16:12
I for one would like to know why the North Shore branch in sitting on a bank account of 35,000 yet we still have to pay for all materials other than food, hold silly fundraisers and have to use cages that look like they were bombed all the way through WWI and WW2? Other branches including mine do not have that sort of cash or ever had anything like it.
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Dangermouse
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckDangermouse 2011-11-16 19:55
Dunno where you’re getting your info from Mutt but WIRES NS doesn’t have close to $35K in the bank. And what money the branch does have comes from fundraising, grant applications etc that the branch has worked damned hard for. Are you suggesting that there’s something other than sound financial management behind the branches balance sheet? Because if you are, you are way, way off base.
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guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckguest 2011-11-25 10:42
Why did Mid North Coast have $100,000.00 in bequest money noted in their minutes in one meeting and not mentioned at the next? I wasn’t aware that branches could soucre their own bequests?
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-26 21:44
Because it was left by one of its own members and the excutors were in the branch so it was mentioned. Why would it be mentioned again?
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-27 22:56
I checked. The $$ weren’t mentioned and it wasn’t $1K or even close. The member left her money to a few charities and some to Wires her own branch for genral purposes but told her excutors how she wanted it spent like the things she helped with money for while she was alive. But not that much. And her excutors could only say what she said but it had to be spent by vote the same as all other money.
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-11 18:55
it is sad when people are hurt but using the englilsh word elder is not meant to hurt. Elders are in european churches and in states and even in workplaces and families of all races. It just means the people who have been there longest or have special roles. It is also sad that indigenous persons and I am one but of a different indigenous have to use english words to describe who they are because that’s how it gets mixed up. I don’t think any disrespect was meant and the word elders is a word for the ones who have been there a long time. If you look at movies you will see elders of witches and villages so it is not a word limited to Australian indigenous people. It’s a shame a english word could have caused such misunderstanding but please don’t feel disrespected.
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-11 17:50
And how come some that were on are gone?
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Spartacus
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckSpartacus 2011-11-11 19:38
That’s been fixed.
S.
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-11 17:50
How come some posts don’t get on even if they’re not at all rude?
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Spartacus
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckSpartacus 2011-11-11 19:36
All posts are moderated - that is in the posting rules (has been from the beginning) - rule #7. As it says in the rules we do not censor opinion - we do however check comments for legal reasons. Some posts have been rejected, but wherever we have a contact email address we write to the author and ask for an adjustment. In most cases the contributor reposts the comment. We ask that such things we feel are libellous / defamatory are removed. To date a total of 25 posts have been rejected:
1 - off topic and no email to make contact;
3 - original withdrawn by author and then reposted;
4 - sent in error - were supposed to go to our email;
8 - withdrawn by us due to legal concerns - agreed to by the author - most reposted;
5 - withdrawn by us due to legal concerns - not reposted;
3 - were mine!
1 - Looking through the record I have found a post from you that was taken down some weeks ago. It was on the "Fair Dinkum?" thread and starts "This annoys me..." This was an error on our part - I apologise - it was removed in error. I have approved it and it is back on the thread. You only had to ask. We have not rejected any other of your posts and you have posted many times. So you can now make that 24 posts rejected, most of them reposted in some form, from posts totalling around 200.
S.
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Wattlebird
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckWattlebird 2011-11-11 09:50
This comment as been edited S.
I am sure that many WIRES members find it offensive too. Thank you for writing into this web site - this Management put themselves on a pedestal by their very actions, but have they earned the honour to be called anything at all? As a lover of our native wildlife and a person who is very concerned about the way this organisation is run I must also add my comments in the hope that, by bringing the public into the arena of discussion, we can rectify the appalling situation in which we wildlife carers find ourselves.
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A Mouse
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckA Mouse 2011-11-11 00:12
I am an Indigenous person who finds it offensive that the leaders of WIRES would call themselves “the Elders”. It is insensitive at least. I think many of my fellow Clan members would be upset by this too.
Our people have cared for country, including all the animals, since the beginning of time. We know this from the stories in our dreaming. Through kinship relationships we are bound to each other. Through the Ancient Lore our people are related to the land and the wildlife. The animals are our totems and our family. The koala is a lore maker in much of Australia; the Eagle and the Crow, the Black Cockatoo and White are some that represent Traditional nations and clans of our people. Through these connections the spirits of our ancestors live. For many centuries it has been this way. To be an Indigenous Elder is to care for people and for country, and to honour our ancestors.
We have had our culture and family, tradition and justice stolen from us. The Sorry Day reminds us of this loss, but reminds us also of who we are and always were. To be an Elder is an honour, earned by the Elders who have suffered before my time. As an Indigenous person today I must try to repair the damage done, mend my people and keep alive my culture for the next generations . All this is demeaned when WIRES people call themselves “elders”.
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-11 15:29
Iit is sad when people are hurt but using the englilsh word elder is not meant to hurt. Elders are in european churches and in states and even in workplaces and families of all races. It just means the people who have been there longest or have special roles. It is also sad that indigenous persons and I am one but of a different indigenous have to use english words to describe who they are because that’s how it gets mixed up. I don’t think any disrespect was meant and the word elders is a word for the ones who have been there a long time. If you look at movies you will see elders of witches and villages so it is not a word limited to Australian indigenous people. It’s a shame a english word could have caused such misunderstanding but please don’t feel disrespected.
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Cockatoo
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckCockatoo 2011-11-12 00:42
WIRES use of the term is obviously disrespectful. I understand its history of usage within European traditions but anyone with a sense of the history of its usage in this country can see how deeply -- and for such cheap personally agrandising effect -- it demeans the local and far more significant usage. Was it earned by a near lifetime of community respect, work and fellowship? Nope. Was it even given to them by someone else? Nope. It simply a silly and strange affectation: a measure of how important a bunch of people felt themselves to be.
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Magnum P.I.
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckMagnum P.I. 2011-11-12 00:46
Guest - I have to ask, are you on the board or somehow connected to it? Because every time anyone says anything even slightly negative about the board of wires you talk down their concerns. Mouse is obviously upset, and those so called elders must have realised the overtones to indigenous culture when they started calling themselves that. Yet you are trying to say mouse is mistaken to feel offended and the board is just misunderstood. If you are connected to the board would you be so kind as to let us all know that. It is pretty obvious I’m not connected to them - I’m not a member of wires either. Your turn...
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smurfette
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Lucksmurfette 2011-11-12 19:11
Yes magnum, I am pretty sure that Guest is connected to the Board or has been in the past.
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Cockatoo
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckCockatoo 2011-11-12 01:02
And “movies” and “elders of witches and villages”? This is the level of seriousness you can summon Guest? And you’re seriously asking someone to not feel disrespected? How awful . . .
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-12 06:11
Im not connected but I know some liek all WIRES members do. Every branch member does. I know for instnace that a past member had a child die who was indigenous and I think its a shame when really hard working volunteers who are not professional are bagged all the time for every decision and every mistake in a really personal way. This site is about ideas not people yet all i see are personal attacks
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Cockatoo
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckCockatoo 2011-11-12 11:09
Guest, it seems like you’re highly anxious about and yet unable to grasp mouse’s deep and heartfelt concerns. I have no idea what you even mean when you use the word Indigenous in your “movie” post: it seems to simply mean you might have a non-English speaking background and, like everyone apart from Indigenous Australians, that come from another country that you were once “indigenous” to. If this is the case, and only if this is the case, then you’re experience simply doesn’t compare -- and that’s not at all to minimise your experience of difference at all or the sincerity with which you might claim this difference.
But the really strange and massively insensitive (because it is completely disconnected) mention of a past Indigenous member’s death -- particularly when references to this have such strong cultural resonances in Indigenous communities -- reinforces this sense of self-focussed anxiety and misunderstanding of the stakes, just as did your mention of movies, witches, etc.
Open your heart please, and your mind, and try to understand beyond your own self-focussed purview why someone who is Indigenous to this country might find the hard-won and community given title of Elder’s self-appointed and -serving application by non-Indigenous Australians at the very least a thing to feel sensitive about.
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-12 16:26
I am sorry if I causedhurt. In my house we look at photos and say the names of the ancestors on one day of the year and then families give flowers in memory. Where my mother came from every house does this on the same day. This is what I tr am trying to say. The word means different things to different people. If there is no disrespect meant there is no disrespect even if accidently we cause hurt. I am upset because the ideas are not being discused here only the people. I believe these are good people who work very hard and try their best even if not always right.
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-12 17:47
I am sorry to keep coming back but I am trying hard to understand. I know about and respect the traditions of land and country and I think maybe it is like the feeling I have to my ancestors memory and bones. It is preshus.
But if I go to lunch tomorrow with the elders of my family that is not disrespect. And if the people who have been meeitng a long time every 6 weeks talk of meeting with the elders of WIRES is that disrespect?
This is why I am upset. I think instead of real ideas the angry people are looking for excuses to hit the ones on the WSC and Board. If you want to be treated fairly you must be fair and not look for things to attck.
Like bullyings. Sometimes there is real bullying. But sometimes it is people who do not want to do the right thing and take joeys to supermarkets and feed them tea and biscuits and when the coordinators try to object they say they are being buillied and make complaints about the coordinators. Or take little peices and put them together wrong to make a committee or coordinator look bad. And that bullying is just as bad as the bullying of a coordinator that is not being fair. And is is what happens when you let personal attack be going round and round instead of getting documents and saying calmly this bit could be worded so it is understood better or that can be made easier. Can anbody hear what im saying?
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-12 18:44
If the WSC did not understand like me then it iis not effective to just stay hurt. You need to write and say I am Mounse from the so and so people. It hurts us when you use the word elders. We know you did not mean disrespect but can you change it please.
Then if after some time they do not change it that is disrespect not before but I think all people must be careful not to make all things just too difficult so no one can speak what they feel because no matter how careful we are something we say will hurt someone else without intent
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Magnum P.I.
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckMagnum P.I. 2011-11-13 03:22
“And if the people who have been meeitng a long time every 6 weeks talk of meeting with the elders of WIRES is that disrespect?” - Answer is YES!
“This site is about ideas not people yet all i see are personal attacks” - Answer is YES, that is all YOU see.
“ I am upset because the ideas are not being discused here only the people.” - Then why is it that every time you seem to focus on one odd thing and avoid any comment about the substance of anything that is mentioned? Not once have you contributed to the debate and addressed the issues. Not once!
“You need to write and say I am Mounse from the so and so people.” - mouse just did write and say that, and you have bagged them for it. The reason they won’t identify themselves is because “Sometimes there is real bullying.” She is probably in wires and wants to keep her licence!
“It hurts us when you use the word elders. We know you did not mean disrespect but can you change it please.” - mouse doesnt know that no disrespect was meant, that’s your interpretation, neither do I know that (in fact I find it hard to believe they didn’t notice).
“Can anbody hear what im saying?” - Answer is YES (loud and clear).
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an eagle
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckan eagle 2011-11-12 19:28
Yes guest, it is important that no WIRES member is personally attacked and that all comments and criticism are confined to things that have been done or said which are wrong, especially when the rights and cultures of others are not respected, volunteers are not fairly, impartially and equally treated, privacy is not protected and grievances by members against members of the Board are ignored. You don’t have to be a professional to do the right thing.
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smurfette
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Lucksmurfette 2011-11-12 19:08
You are fully aware of the use of the word in “Australia” and as an Indigenous Australian I am offended that you would even think of using the word.
You and we are Australian’s, and should therefore respect the people that are entitled to be called ELDERS and not have it bandied around by a lot of past WIRES members who are seen as the main reason that WIRES is still operating in the dark ages.
Maybe you could draw an appropriate word from way back when....and use that instead.
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Pelican
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckPelican 2011-11-13 20:15
My interpretation of an "Elder" is that the title is bestowed upon an individual by their community out of respect, & is not solely related to years. Among those who self-proclaim this title, many do not have their community’s (or their organisation’s) respect, nor have they all contributed the years of experience. In my branch, I would think of them more as the "Stagnants"
I’m relieved to read that in some branches Aboriginal people have been permitted to join WIRES. I am ashamed that, in our Branch, they have been discouraged, & if they have persisted, their applications to join have been "lost", as the "Stagnants" have often expressed the opinion (behind closed doors) that "we cannot have people licensed to be wildlife carers, that are legally permitted to eat wildlife" ... The lack of tolerance, the narrow-mindedness, the prejudice & the stupidity of this attitude makes me feel physically sick. I have aboriginal family members & friends. This is yet another aspect of the reign of the "Stagnants" which has forced me to withdraw my involvement in the Branch, as I find working with them intolerable.
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-14 00:36
I have been trying to understand since I came to Australia the differences and today I was talking to my friend who is Aborigianal and works for the lands council and is WIRES and she can’t understnad the fuss either and thinks it is sh*t stirring and yes racism happens to all black people and oriental people and is bad but not in all branches or my friend would not be in my branch and what is this to do with policies and ideas?
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Cockatoo
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckCockatoo 2011-11-14 10:35
Pelican: “we cannot have people licensed to be wildlife carers, that are legally permitted to eat wildlife”.
Holy hell. If anybody in WIRES is actually saying this, or if there’s even a general culture of concern about wildlife eating and the cultural background of volunteers, that’s incredibly disturbing and incredibly racist, and is of course completely in breach of the racial discrimination act. Any employer who said anything like this, or who had a history of losing applications from any one racial group, would be dealt with quick smart. Cretins with such concerns have no place in any organisation, let alone one which officially acts for the state of NSW as wildlife managers.
Good on anyone who pushes back against this kind of rotten nonsense from within or without.
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It’s time
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckIt’s time 2011-11-19 08:42
Pelican I am not sure where you are from , but unfortunately similar things happened in my area. Seems like it was part of a broader culture - and yes another reason why reform is overdue.
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@SpartaCusibro
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luck@SpartaCusibro 2011-11-05 09:57
#reformWIRES - Follow my cousin on Twitter! Go SpartaCusibro!
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a guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Lucka guest 2011-11-03 09:12
At the 2010 AGM after 4 members of the board had been voted out as council reps by their branches, and as a result were not entitled to stand for re election to the board - even though the secretary returned as rep for the admin team and another was employed by WIRES and never really left - 3 council reps working for reform stood for election to the board. After their defeat at the election the board distributed to the new council a defamatory statement against them. After this bullying needless to say they didn’t stand again.
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guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckguest 2011-11-03 22:00
If this is true its disgusting. What does their licence entitle them to do? Be [EDIT]? Be undemocratic? Be ruthless? Be immoral? If their licence doesnt entitle them to do these things it certainly condones and supports this foul behaviour. This is the result of a very poor licencing system. It will never do anything more than create this terrible rabble, forever destroying people in the clamber to stay at the top of their respective little power trips - power courtesy of NPWS. It surely does not operate in the best interests of animals. The resulting decline in animal welfare standards and outcomes in the area of wildlife care is disturbing despite new standards having been recently introduced.
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Wattlebird
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckWattlebird 2011-11-05 08:56
YES you are correct. Power courtesy of NPWS. I have personally written to DECCW (to Ron Haerring of the Licencing Section) and informed him of all the troubles that I have had and what has been going on and DECCW has done absolutely nothing about anything. The care of animals here leaves much to be desired. The Possum Co-ordinator has recently told a member to give Nilstat (for thrush) to a possum joey at the rate of 1 ml. x 3 daily. The wrong dose and far too much to assist the animal. Yet these sorts of problems continue all the time because of the power trip that these “elders” just bask in. They think they know everything and don’t consult with some of the excellent lecturers that we have.
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an eagle
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckan eagle 2011-11-05 11:17
I would like to know why DECCW wasn’t given a copy of that report or why it didn’t require Wires to give it a copy. Obviously that report had nothing to report.
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a guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Lucka guest 2011-11-06 11:48
Why is there an employee of DECCW on the Board?
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Blogbandit
# Blogbandit 2011-11-07 08:40
What was the weight of the joey Wattlebird?... I can tell you for a fact ive had brushtail joeys at 300-400 grams on Nilstat and the dose rate was .75 of a ml 3 times a day and this was prescribed by a wild life vet.
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It’s time
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckIt’s time 2011-11-19 08:54
Wattlebird, I too have written to the Licensing Unit with my concerns about WIRES. But nothing came of it.....
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an eagle
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckan eagle 2011-11-05 11:11
Two branch representatives of this group, not three. were defamed by the statement given to each member of council following the AGM. The other later stood and was elected to a casual vacancy on the Board. Unfortunately she didn’t restand at the 2011 AGM.
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flowerbud
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckflowerbud 2011-11-02 00:03
Does wires actually spend money on providing the subsidy or do they just beg for and receive a cheaper rate for bulk supply?
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a guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Lucka guest 2011-11-02 18:29
Yes there is some subsidy but volunteers are still left to bear most of the caring expenses, food, equipment, vet bills, travel, aviaries, while most of the donated money seems to go on marketing, chasing bequests and admin and wages, including in the past contracts to some previous board members.
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-01 07:23
Some of this story is realy offensive. Seems this group is getting into the same trap as all other groups that you are begining to concentrate on persons and single events instead of issues. Who cares who sleeps with who or is related? Should Hilary Cliknton not be secreatrary of state because she’s married to Bill Clinton regardless of her own qualifications? And if she divorces Bill and gets a new partner must that partner (man or woman) not take any public office because they are now related to Bill? and motherhood statements about welfare of animals and mixing issues. So how is this group becoming different now? For all the faults and non professional (wish we had the money got go full professional) can anybody put up candidates who work as hard as the ones there now in most cases? It’s not the ones grabbing the pwer that I can see in my branch its the ones willing to do the work then being shot at for being high profile Not to say there aren’t things wrong but I can see a lot of sniping at the workers already trying to change it with training and stuff without looking at history or putting hands up to do the effort instead of just tearing down. Like having our lawyer volunteers draft stuff, but are they any better than anyone else unless they’ve done a lot of rescues and care and know whats needed in policy anyway not just the way the words should be put?
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a guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Lucka guest 2011-11-01 11:16
Who are you including Guest as “we” in the comment “wish we had the money to go full professional”? Sounds like you are speaking for the Board because the ordinary members never have any say and are not asked what they want done with the money. Probably if asked they would want some money spent on animal food. RSPCA seems to be able to attact professional and business people to its board who are happy to do this as voluntary work so why can’t Wires?
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Magnum P.I.
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckMagnum P.I. 2011-11-01 12:12
Hilary Clinton is bisexual?
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-01 13:56
WE as in Wires we do spend money on food. Every branch gets the subsidy. Bet you didn’t know that magnum. See what you can learn? Point is sho cares so long as she can do the job?
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Magnum P.I.
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckMagnum P.I. 2011-11-01 15:35
I can’t learn anything from you because you are not allowed to teach me anything unless you do WIRES Train the Trainer first! Bet you didn’t know that whoever-you-are!
Is Hilary Clinton bisexual? I didn’t know that! Hilary “gets a new partner... (man or woman)”? What? When did that happen!
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Cockatoo
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckCockatoo 2011-11-02 22:56
I haven’t written on this site before but I’ve been following it with real interest.
Nepotism is always poisonous. Even if someone can passably do a job -- and that’s certainly not the case in the core instance above -- it has a larger and more troubling cultural effect: it erodes participation from those who would do better than passable.
(And of course HIllary, extremely talented as she is, should not have her current job, passable though she is at it. It stinks of dynastic hubris, of reward, of familiarity and family over merit. There were much better and more honest candidates for that gig than her I giggle when ever I remember her made-up story about landing under fire. Just as, obviously, George W shouldn’t have gotten the job he did and only did so on the basis of his family’s deep political history. It seems pretty obvious to me, Guest, that in trying to raise a stink and telling us about your generalised state of personal offence, you are attempting an insubstantial bait and switch here, in order to draw away attention from the substantial particulars of the article.)
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white ant
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckwhite ant 2011-11-02 18:19
Hi Guest, I agree that people regardless of who they are if they have the qualifications and can do the job they should apply. But this article of the secretary is one example. What about the Board member who recieved a paid position of training officer without any known qualifications and without Council approval? What about a Board member and wife who sold products at courses for their own profit? And what qualifications do you need to be on the Board and who has business experince? What about a GM position that was not advertised, neither was the call centre manager job. Whether it is or not, it is perceived as jobs for the boys. In our branch we would be happy if people would take on positions.
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Jillian Farmer
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckJillian Farmer 2011-10-31 12:28
Hi, it seems when reading between the lines that the Council is a law unto themselves, and the position that they
hold is a status symble, they do not seem to really care about the Wildlife when it comes down to the nitty gritty. As for the
NPWL they seemed to be controlled by this board and haven’t got the guts to stand up for what the job is all about
PROTECTION & PRESERVATION OF OUR NATIVE WILDLIFE. get your act together and back to reallity and listen
to the members , we are not all Liars so there must be TRUTH in what we are trying to get thru, Keep them honest
and do not manipulate the constitution to suit themselves and get away with it.
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guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckguest 2011-11-25 10:40
Hi Jillian,
The problem in the Council meetings is that the Board chairs and controls them. There are 9 Board members out of 35 Council members, that is 27 branch reps and 8 Standard Team reps. If every branch attends, which they don’t it meams any vote requires 10 votes to win. Most Council meeting 22 - 25 people are present.
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an eagle
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckan eagle 2011-11-26 07:06
And even if the branch reps had more voting power at the Council, as against those that are board members (whose interest is to maintain the decisions made by the Board rather than protect the interests of their branch, if they represent one) and the standard team reps, who are not voted for by the membership nor, as specialised people are usually selected, by an independent person with qualifications who can assess the qualifications of those applying, the state Council would still be left with very little power to do anything to bring in change. The council is only a guiding body. All major decisions are made by the board and its records and minutes are private so members can’t even check on what is being considered and decided, which affects them. The board is increasingly taking over work which in the past was done by the council and passing on other work and business ie drafting policies and recommendations to the admin and governance teams whose members have been initially selected by the Board. I really wonder what there is left for the council to do, certainly nothing of any significance.
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-10-31 10:54
Are divorced people relatives?
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Magnum P.I.
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckMagnum P.I. 2011-10-31 14:39
Yes they are. Why? If you have kids then your ex is your children’s parent - can’t escape it - always related! (by blood too!)
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-10-31 19:51
But wasn’t the replacement the new partner of the ex not the ex? (who didn’t have children in common anyway)
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Magnum P.I.
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckMagnum P.I. 2011-11-01 03:40
and here I was thinking it would be straight-forward!
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-01 05:58
So new partner of ex is not a relative? Do stepchildren stay relatives after divorce? Shoulod that be corrected then? And focus on issues not personalities ad relationships? What if everyone involved has great skills shouldn’t they be allowed to use them because of connection to another person?
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Spartacus
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckSpartacus 2011-11-01 10:54
As you wish. My glass jaw again...
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Magnum P.I.
# Magnum P.I. 2011-11-01 11:05
Huh?
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-01 12:34
Thank you at least it’s true now. You don’t have to publish this if you don’t want.
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watsgoinon
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckwatsgoinon 2011-10-30 17:40
return to the topic for discussion.
It takes a fair bit of determination and discipline to wade through both the initial and follow up papers presented here.
Who is the author & is information is factual/ accurate? As a member who knows little (nothing) of the workings of the Council & Board, it certainly seems every member should be concerned at the ’goings-on’ of our “representatives”. How can a person be elected/appointed to a State body presiding over wildlife isses, (supposedly as “our” representative), yet not be even a member of our own Wires Council? It would seem that the Board is a law unto itself? Is the Board representative of the Council? (with council representing every member in each branch?) Sure seems likely that Council allowing Standards Team members onto Board has stacked the Board somehow? what’s being done to turn-around decisions made that go beyond the authority ’given’ by our Constitution?
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Magnum P.I.
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckMagnum P.I. 2011-10-30 20:42
The article is right on the money. This was in an email I saw recently from the secretary addressed to WSC members -
Quote:
Welcome to all new WIRES State Council Representatives and hello again to the “elders”.
NO JOKE. WTF? Its so incestuous and tangled. Until really recently no one could find out who was on these teams or how they got there - no membership list, no minutes, no nothing. All very strange and if you asked for the information you became public enemy no. 1 - the indignation that you could have the hide to question the integrity of the elders - like, sorry, your integrity is not the issue, my right to know is - its nothing to do with your feelings and I shouldn’t have to make my rights submit to your fragile ego! The depth of integrity and professionalism on the board...? - sorry did I say depth! Whoever made that pool of talent didn’t put in a deep end.
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Ks
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckKs 2011-10-31 10:16
To check the legitimacy of these articles. You can check the Council meeting minutes on the WIRES intranet. These give a brief interpreation of what happens at the Council meetings. Unfortunately the agenda is not put up on the intranet.
Amendments to the current 5.5 Standard team policy were placed onto the agenda in December 2010 before the tenure of these teams were to expire in Feb 2011. This item was not heard until April 2011 so was not given any priority. Most likely as there were a couple of "controversial " points on these amendments such as listing who is on the teams, time limits for new nominees and conflict of interest issues. This item was passed onto the ATST.
At the same time there was an agenda item for review and suggested amendments to the Constitution. there was very litte discussions and debate on this issue and in fact everyone around the room was only able to make one comment with no right of reply by the presenter. This item has not been followed up or actioned to alert the membership that this would be looked at. It suggested that it be handed over to the ATST team or new governance team yet to be formed.
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an eagle
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckan eagle 2011-10-31 11:41
Interesting that the Board found that 2 applicants for the new governance team, who were lawyers, did not meet the criteria for selection. No eagles should be allowed near governance, particularly one from a certain branch where 3 members stood and all were found by the Board to have been unsuitable.
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TRUE CARER
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckTRUE CARER 2011-10-30 16:44
YET ANOTHER PUBLIC DISPLAY OF WIRES INCOMPETENCE AND THE POOR ANIMAL CARE PRACTICES & STANDARDS?
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margaret
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckmargaret 2011-10-30 09:15
How was this allowed to happen?. NSW Government is responsible for
native animals and should be taking over management.
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McGyver
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckMcGyver 2011-10-30 09:43
The government will not get involved in internal disputes of charities, until they have breached the law or their licence conditions. There have been many letters by WIRES members to Depts of Fair trading, Gaming and Racing, DECC NPWS and other politians for years. Keep the letters going folks they cannot ignor them forever.......
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guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckguest 2011-11-03 01:02
Hiding behind policies they have put in place themselves does not alleviate DECC from its responsibilities to the citizens and native fauna of NSW. The current licence seems to be a licence to bully and destroy members of groups and abuse and neglect animals. Government has a moral responsibility to have a duty of care to those their inept policies affect so dramatically. When people have nervous breakdowns and have their lives destroyed and animals aren’t rescued or are abused and neglected after rescue and that’s all ok because the abusers are licensed, there’s something horribly wrong. Continuing to deny complaints and allegations by not addressing them openly contributes to the general view that there’s an unwholesome relationship here.
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-04 08:31
Totally agree. It should be pointed out that these problems WIRES members are suffering, are not only found in WIRES. Having been a long-time member of another group, I’ve seen the most disgusting abusive & dishonest behaviour of the people who think they ’own’ a group, & will do absolutely anything to stay in power. WIRES is also not the only group in NSW to have an unelected rep on the state council. In the group I’m referring to, there has been so many good wildlife carers, who start full of enthusiasm, but before too long are worn down, discouraged, & end up being driven out when the ’owner’ of the group deems them to be a threat. There has been the most terrible neglect & abuse of wildlife in care, by one protected ’elder’ of the group. This person is a rep for the group in NWC, yet has been the subject of MANY complaints, (over many years, by many different people), about mistreatment, neglect & disgusting filthy conditions for animals in care; which mostly die there. Yet DECC has done nothing about it, other than writing a few letters, which then the owners of the group cover up, so as to protect their license. Yet not once has an inspection there been made by DECC.
I believe the problem in NSW stems from the licensing situation, which puts volunteer groups in charge of the entire field of wildlife rehab, & of the licensing of wildlife carers; but has no oversight over the behaviour of the groups at all. No other state does this to their wildlife carers. This gives groups enormous power over the carers, & far too often this power is grossly abused, & the groups are not behaving ethically. The result in our area, has been that with so many people being driven out all the time, there are often calls for injured wildlife that get unanswered, (both by WIRES, which is the other group in the area, which also has big problems), & by this other group. Or where no one can be found to pick up the injured animal. This happens far too often. It’s the wildlife which suffers. Meanwhile, there are many excellent former wildlife carers, with great facilities, that are empty, because they’ve been driven out of a group due the egos & politics, who won’t put themselves into such a destructive situation again, so are not able to be licensed. They’ve paid many thousands for equipment, which is now unused. It’s ridiculous. I’ve seen dedicated, intelligent people being driven to a nervous breakdown, & taking years to recover, due to the disgusting things that were done to them by persons in power in a group. Yet no one has any options. You either have to put up with it, or you are unlicensed. It’s wrong.
NWC was supposed to provide a separate body that could oversee the groups, but they refused to do so when asked by DECC. In fact, they don’t do much at all, other than collect a lot of money; which could be better spent on wildlife. There has to be some sort of oversight of the behaviour of the groups, & somewhere to raise serious concerns that are dealt with. Otherwise, DECC should issue individual licenses, like EVERY other state in the country does, & people could then vote with their feet as to which group they wish to be part of. The current situation has no accountability for groups at all, & far from ensuring good standards, it simply entrenches the poor standards of those in power in groups & gives them incentive to cover up poor standards of individuals to protect the group’s license.
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Wattlebird
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckWattlebird 2011-11-05 08:47
Dear Guest - you have summed up the situation, re the care of our wildlife, absolutely and completely. During the last nine years as a volunteer wildlife carer I have been subject to abuse, bullying and harrasment and my health has suffered badly so I can confirm what you have written. I have spent large amounts of money on equipment and feeding the animals in care which I have willing done. Until all wildlife groups in NSW learn to take care of volunteers through good management skills and a genuine desire to keep dedicated carers then this appalling situation won’t change. We need the government to step in and help us. We need everyone who reads the comments on this web site to help and sign the petition. If we, as a community, care about our native wildlife then please help us make the changes we seek.
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Wattlebird
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckWattlebird 2011-10-29 14:30
Hi Lyn - I also lived through this period and I felt very sorry for the SMSTeam at the time. How dare they think that they know better than all the experts and specialists in the field of wildlife. This was a disgraceful occurrence and put many carers through a lot of suffering. We have some fantastic lecturers in the possum team and also some excellent possum carers. How about some support for the volunteers! How about some genuine caring for WIRES members! How about some empathy and understanding! How about some compassion! How about only allowing onto the Council and the Board those with qualifications to deal with the writing of manuals etc.
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an eagle
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckan eagle 2011-10-30 09:07
I agree. As Assange has said “Democracy depends on the free flow of information and ideas” In the BT possum diet debate the Board sought to impose its views on the council and refused to consider the advice given by the SMT rep to refer it to experts for advice. The board showed no respect to the small mammal team in not allowing it to give advice on this issue, even though it had selected its members. The first and second SMT reps on council stood their ground for the sake of proper and professional animal husbandry, but for this were subject to what I considered to be bullying and ridicule by a Board member, which was not kept in check by the Chair. During a period of some 18 months BT possums in care were probably not fed an adequate diet and members were deprived of training courses, impacting no doubt on the care of animals. So much time was wasted by the Council by the Board refusing to accept advice from experts outside. The secretary in this debate also showed that she was not impatial, refusing to pass on an opinion she received to the SMT for consideration at the same time she sent it to the training officer (who was also a board member).
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an eagle
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Luckan eagle 2011-10-30 09:10
The Board is presumably now seeking to rid the council of “troublemakers” ie those seeking reform labelled as “time wasters” as this is not seen as productive. as this was the view of the previous Board and there has been only one change at the AGM. Yet the Board was not concerned at wasting council time arguing on the possum food issue which could have been resolved quickly by agreeing to ask the experts for professional advice.
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a guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own Lucka guest 2011-11-02 06:49
This does not sound right. Governments and councils would love to know how this is done.
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Lyn
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckLyn 2011-10-29 13:49
As a possum carer, being aware of the problems the SMSTeam had with trying to satisfy the Board and Council re brushtails diet in care, only, after 2 years of submissions, to have it all settled by getting outside “experts in the field” to come up with a diet that the Board and Council approved, adjusting the manual and powerpoints to suit this recommendation and then teaching same in recent courses I am gobsmacked to read in the last draft minutes of the Council that one member of the counci lodged an objection to the contents of the diet and it was voted to amend the diet, rewrite the chapter in the manual and send it out to all possum carers. Surely two years of research and ultimately a diet that was not put forward by any WIRES members, but by various specialists in the field of wildlife should not be thrown out or amended because of the opinion of one Council member.
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Guest
# RE: Winning Every Time: Making Your Own LuckGuest 2011-11-25 10:32
Hi Lyn,
The minutes are incorrect a whole other topic. There was some questions by a Board member as to a couple of foods, but this didn’t change the diet as proposed by the outside experts and the SMST. The SMST had asked that the new diet be printed off as an insert and free of charge sent to all members who had completed a possum course in the last 2 years so members could now feed their possums a correct diet. This was an action item from the Board and Council meeting and has not been sent by the secretary.
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